In a world where all humans live isolated from each, and all their interactions are with AI. I think in such a world, the sapiens will quickly realize the importance of the human touch, the physical presence of loved ones. Humans have gone through tens of thousands of years of "fine-tuning" to bond physically, to de-align ourselves from this nature, would be only be a shot to our foot. It will hurt. And the sapien will quickly realize the limitations of replacing human connections with AI chatbots.
I am white-pilled about the effect of AI on human relationships. I am seeing TONS of anecdotes of people using claude.ai (from Anthropic) for relationship advice, counselling and therapy, and all of their experiences are very positive.
I think this is how the timeline will unfold. Instead of replacing human connections, AI will instead help us make better human connections, by helping us understand ourselves and other humans.
That's fair. Using it as a tool to then go back into our human relationships and make them better. That's a wonderful outlook and I hope you're right.
Although, even then, I still worry that we're losing our ability to talk things through and solve the situations ourselves - which itself is us giving away an important skill set. It makes us less robust.
I didn't read the whole thing , but I want to take issue with two points.
First point , the hypothetical of a world where humans serve the machines like cattle ;
It's not a hypothetical .
In the United States the very way the geography and city scapes are designed is to serve the automobile.
Comprehensively and minutely the society and the culture is designed to serve the automobile.
Automobiles may be convenient, they may be enjoyable , but what is convenient for the machine takes precedence.
Granted , one can choose not to have and drive a car.
But that in most cases would be tantamount to becoming a professional Boxer, but with the proviso that you will go into every fight with both hands tied behind your back.
Those among us who are older may recall that in the 1970's it was proposed that the U.S. should start dialing back the automobile culture and automobile dependence.
If such steps had been meaningfully taken then , then I think it reasonable to assume that today transportation for most would consist of buses , trolleys, trains and scooters.
But pretty much very little was done.
Maybe this was because people liked automobiles so much ?
Or , maybe , it was equally , or perhaps more , because, as I said , the society and culture was by that time so oriented toward service to the automobile that such an option was really no option.
In this case we were already servants of the machine,
And this was before the first Commodore 64 hit the market.
Internationally , it makes me wince when people speak of genocide , not because I approve of genocide ,
But , because , nuclear weapons aside,
Conventional weapons alone are so efficiently destructive now that war in itself , by definition , is genocidal.
But , rather than admit that our weapons technology has become so effective and efficient that , if genocide is impermissable, then war was already rendered literally obsolete 50 years ago ,
We instead bend language itself to pretend this isn't so , so the party can continue.
50 years ago --- when computers with the capacity of your cellphone filled rooms , and were still the near - exclusive province of folks with ph. D’s and very deep pockets.
Here again , in the case of war machines whose very purpose is of genocidal proportions , humans are the servant too , not the masters of , the machines.
Second point ;
“ In the United States, for 20 years now we have been interacting not with each other but more and more with simulated versions of each other. And we have never been unhappier. I mean, that data is in; that experiment is over. We don't like it and it's not good for us. “
Grrr , my first computer was a Commodore 64.
And I have been on the internet pretty much as long as there has been an internet.
So let me refresh your memory , or at least the memory of the hopes , dreams , and views of some.
For some of us the original promise of the internet was anonymity itself.
A ( cyber ) world of genuine egalitarianism where race , sex , age , status would not exist simply because either you simply couldn't see these things , and / or because the environment itself is so malleable as to render such things so vaguely opaque as to render it irrelevant.
THAT
IS
What we wanted.
And why ?
Let's cut the bullshit ;
Because in the real world egalitarianism has never existed , and does not exist.
Period.
Rage against racism , sexism , ageism , and arbitrary hierarchies all you want ,
The fact is the ONLY PLACE where the alternative EVER EXISTS is in anonymity and in distance.
Like it or not.
So , no , I don't think the data shows what you claim it shows here.
You want to have your cake and eat it too.
You want to have the fruit of the tree of knowledge without the sins that necessarily come with it.
And that , perhaps along with other reasons , is why people are miserable.
.. am returnin to the beginning .. this ‘retort deserves a reread .. & so does the source .. ‘have no skin in the game - & so don’t shoot th messenger.. ‘AI ‘Rustlers .. 🦎🏴☠️🍁
For some reason my writing often seems much , much , much harsher than it is.
Indeed , it even seems harsh when I'm chill and / or don't give a shit . ?? 🤔🤷♀️
Writing style I guess ???
In this case , keep in mind that all of this is theory , theory I pulled straight out of my ass.
Thirdly , I have been on the internet about as long as there has been an internet , but I'm STILL not remotely tech - savvy . ( another evidence that I'm hardly a genius. )
The above essay was actually directed at Meta Ronin . * embarrassed * but wound up being posted in the wrong place.
I usually avoid trotting into other people's Substacks to talk shit unsolicited .
.. am a repeat offender myself .. Props to you re the Motor Vehicle ‘reality & certainly ‘everyone’s a photographer’ & certainly stunning levels of ‘smartest guy in the room’ now stalk the earth.. ! Am watchin the AI scene with interest - to say it may be parasitic / cannibalistic seems hardly a stretch at all.. & that Partisan Politics is over the moon for AI seems undeniable 🦎🏴☠️🍁
Hypothetically... If we imagine a Robinson Crusoe scenario where you spend several years in a different solar system, with only AI's for company....
Then the question is, what are you doing with your life to change your environment for good? Are you attempting to return to humans, or wait for humans to arrive, or trying to get one last message out that humans will hear, or trying to provide one last service that humans will benefit one, or if all humans are dead, are trying to at least create some sort of dying memorial on behalf of humans in case some other species comes along to read it?
And in that situation, WHILE you are trying to get some use out of the last few years or decades of your remaining isolated life...
The purpose of empathy with an AI first, mutual diagnostics, and second, basic preservation of sanity.
The AI needs to be able to fake empathy with you, so that the AI can understand you well enough to provide useful advice, even if it's just "I'm going to remind you to take your morning vitamin pills, even though you told me not to do that, because empathically, I know you didn't really mean it."
And the AI needs to be able to fake empathy with you, just to help you avoid having a total mental breakdown, long-term.
Also, if it possible, it would help if the AI could use the 'empathy' channel to provide true information about it's own state, such as gradual hardware failures or increasing radiation damage or routine wear on the motors in the dishwasher or food mixer, so that you have one more channel of information to use in diagnosing your environment, and feeling good about making repairs.
So yeah, basically, Empathy is a true channel of information in a non-obvious format, preferably with persistence... If it stops being true information, then it's mostly worthless and possibly harmful. A negligent and misleading computer program that mis-calibrates your empathy sensors to the point where you can't interact with real humans in any healthy way is terrifying.
I see AI as the destruction of artists. What has this world come to?
"The Machine Stops" by E.M. Forster is describing this problem of technology mediated isolation of human beings. It´s a short book worth the read.
In a world where all humans live isolated from each, and all their interactions are with AI. I think in such a world, the sapiens will quickly realize the importance of the human touch, the physical presence of loved ones. Humans have gone through tens of thousands of years of "fine-tuning" to bond physically, to de-align ourselves from this nature, would be only be a shot to our foot. It will hurt. And the sapien will quickly realize the limitations of replacing human connections with AI chatbots.
I am white-pilled about the effect of AI on human relationships. I am seeing TONS of anecdotes of people using claude.ai (from Anthropic) for relationship advice, counselling and therapy, and all of their experiences are very positive.
I think this is how the timeline will unfold. Instead of replacing human connections, AI will instead help us make better human connections, by helping us understand ourselves and other humans.
Will it cure loneliness? no.
Will it *help* cure loneliness? yes.
That's fair. Using it as a tool to then go back into our human relationships and make them better. That's a wonderful outlook and I hope you're right.
Although, even then, I still worry that we're losing our ability to talk things through and solve the situations ourselves - which itself is us giving away an important skill set. It makes us less robust.
I didn't read the whole thing , but I want to take issue with two points.
First point , the hypothetical of a world where humans serve the machines like cattle ;
It's not a hypothetical .
In the United States the very way the geography and city scapes are designed is to serve the automobile.
Comprehensively and minutely the society and the culture is designed to serve the automobile.
Automobiles may be convenient, they may be enjoyable , but what is convenient for the machine takes precedence.
Granted , one can choose not to have and drive a car.
But that in most cases would be tantamount to becoming a professional Boxer, but with the proviso that you will go into every fight with both hands tied behind your back.
Those among us who are older may recall that in the 1970's it was proposed that the U.S. should start dialing back the automobile culture and automobile dependence.
If such steps had been meaningfully taken then , then I think it reasonable to assume that today transportation for most would consist of buses , trolleys, trains and scooters.
But pretty much very little was done.
Maybe this was because people liked automobiles so much ?
Or , maybe , it was equally , or perhaps more , because, as I said , the society and culture was by that time so oriented toward service to the automobile that such an option was really no option.
In this case we were already servants of the machine,
And this was before the first Commodore 64 hit the market.
Internationally , it makes me wince when people speak of genocide , not because I approve of genocide ,
But , because , nuclear weapons aside,
Conventional weapons alone are so efficiently destructive now that war in itself , by definition , is genocidal.
But , rather than admit that our weapons technology has become so effective and efficient that , if genocide is impermissable, then war was already rendered literally obsolete 50 years ago ,
We instead bend language itself to pretend this isn't so , so the party can continue.
50 years ago --- when computers with the capacity of your cellphone filled rooms , and were still the near - exclusive province of folks with ph. D’s and very deep pockets.
Here again , in the case of war machines whose very purpose is of genocidal proportions , humans are the servant too , not the masters of , the machines.
Second point ;
“ In the United States, for 20 years now we have been interacting not with each other but more and more with simulated versions of each other. And we have never been unhappier. I mean, that data is in; that experiment is over. We don't like it and it's not good for us. “
Grrr , my first computer was a Commodore 64.
And I have been on the internet pretty much as long as there has been an internet.
So let me refresh your memory , or at least the memory of the hopes , dreams , and views of some.
For some of us the original promise of the internet was anonymity itself.
A ( cyber ) world of genuine egalitarianism where race , sex , age , status would not exist simply because either you simply couldn't see these things , and / or because the environment itself is so malleable as to render such things so vaguely opaque as to render it irrelevant.
THAT
IS
What we wanted.
And why ?
Let's cut the bullshit ;
Because in the real world egalitarianism has never existed , and does not exist.
Period.
Rage against racism , sexism , ageism , and arbitrary hierarchies all you want ,
The fact is the ONLY PLACE where the alternative EVER EXISTS is in anonymity and in distance.
Like it or not.
So , no , I don't think the data shows what you claim it shows here.
You want to have your cake and eat it too.
You want to have the fruit of the tree of knowledge without the sins that necessarily come with it.
And that , perhaps along with other reasons , is why people are miserable.
.. am returnin to the beginning .. this ‘retort deserves a reread .. & so does the source .. ‘have no skin in the game - & so don’t shoot th messenger.. ‘AI ‘Rustlers .. 🦎🏴☠️🍁
For some reason my writing often seems much , much , much harsher than it is.
Indeed , it even seems harsh when I'm chill and / or don't give a shit . ?? 🤔🤷♀️
Writing style I guess ???
In this case , keep in mind that all of this is theory , theory I pulled straight out of my ass.
Thirdly , I have been on the internet about as long as there has been an internet , but I'm STILL not remotely tech - savvy . ( another evidence that I'm hardly a genius. )
The above essay was actually directed at Meta Ronin . * embarrassed * but wound up being posted in the wrong place.
I usually avoid trotting into other people's Substacks to talk shit unsolicited .
.. am a repeat offender myself .. Props to you re the Motor Vehicle ‘reality & certainly ‘everyone’s a photographer’ & certainly stunning levels of ‘smartest guy in the room’ now stalk the earth.. ! Am watchin the AI scene with interest - to say it may be parasitic / cannibalistic seems hardly a stretch at all.. & that Partisan Politics is over the moon for AI seems undeniable 🦎🏴☠️🍁
Hypothetically... If we imagine a Robinson Crusoe scenario where you spend several years in a different solar system, with only AI's for company....
Then the question is, what are you doing with your life to change your environment for good? Are you attempting to return to humans, or wait for humans to arrive, or trying to get one last message out that humans will hear, or trying to provide one last service that humans will benefit one, or if all humans are dead, are trying to at least create some sort of dying memorial on behalf of humans in case some other species comes along to read it?
And in that situation, WHILE you are trying to get some use out of the last few years or decades of your remaining isolated life...
The purpose of empathy with an AI first, mutual diagnostics, and second, basic preservation of sanity.
The AI needs to be able to fake empathy with you, so that the AI can understand you well enough to provide useful advice, even if it's just "I'm going to remind you to take your morning vitamin pills, even though you told me not to do that, because empathically, I know you didn't really mean it."
And the AI needs to be able to fake empathy with you, just to help you avoid having a total mental breakdown, long-term.
Also, if it possible, it would help if the AI could use the 'empathy' channel to provide true information about it's own state, such as gradual hardware failures or increasing radiation damage or routine wear on the motors in the dishwasher or food mixer, so that you have one more channel of information to use in diagnosing your environment, and feeling good about making repairs.
So yeah, basically, Empathy is a true channel of information in a non-obvious format, preferably with persistence... If it stops being true information, then it's mostly worthless and possibly harmful. A negligent and misleading computer program that mis-calibrates your empathy sensors to the point where you can't interact with real humans in any healthy way is terrifying.